Or he developed it post-yahiko’s death.

i dont think thats the case… i think its more like he wasnt at his full potential back then to fully know and master that ability…

Thanks for your comment about the Forbidden Jutsu of Orochimaru!
I had a feeling that Orochimaru did his own version of his
Living Corpse Reincarnation Jutsu, all I needed was my comment about it
to be comfirmed! Thanks Again!

and about that Tobito Theory, I think Tobi is using
someone else body besides Obito! There were better choices than
his body! Or Tobi probably still using his old body!

________________________________________________________________

To Shrimp Stirfry at # 209,

Thanks for your comment about Orochimaru!

But, even though Orochimaru wants a More powerful/youthful shell,
can you still called that a Hermit Crab?
Just a Conceited Hermit Crab with his reasons?

Also, without info about Pain Naruto would have lost. Actualy he DID lost. First he lost a fight against Pain, then he lost mental battle against Kyuubi. If not forth hokages technique, he would be completely screwed.

im still not impressed… orochimaru said kabuto was kakashi’s level at best… orochimaru knows kabuto better then tsunade does… simply cuz kabuto managed to deal with tsunade medical and nerve jutsu doesnt mean he’s better… cmon seriously kabuto is an ant compared to the top dogs or akatsuki and naruto… even tsunade herself doesnt have that many destructive skills… shes a close range fighter with devastating force… shes the weakest ofthe sannin’s… kabuto is even weaker… hes also close range fighter with nerve damaging abilities but compared to these top dogs, it means nothing…

tsunade simply overestimated kabuto whereas orochimaru knew kabuto better then even kabuto would have thot… kabuto’s lil plot wont last too long. imo hed be the type to create monsters and creatures to do his bidding cuz when it comes to 1 on 1, kabuto is not be that great.

and the only reason itchi won those times is because he had the freakin sharingan….and come on itachi was pwnsome…and the secoond time susano …orochimaru just had the same bad luck as every other villian the “i will talk abdout my superiority to you” and then BAM right when he was distracted talking about his awsome power….thats when he gets killed.

and its no like he could move around anyways……he was stuck inside the mouth of one of his snakes.

keep in mind kabuto has a mind and medical knowledge that Tsunade herself said surpassed her when she was in her prime…..now he will have ororchimarus chakra levels + his own+ororchimarus snake and other jutsu repretoir……..come on its like Tsunade +Orochimaru all in one package.

its hard to think of kabuto managing to be one of the top dogs, compared to akatsuki and naruto… orochimaru wasnt all that and kabuto wasnt as strong as orochimaru… kabuto took orochimaru in, hoping to become stronger the same way naruto did whilest fighting his inner fox… but the strongest kabuto would get, is as strong as orochimaru… all that would probably happen is give birth to another human experimental maniac with lots of tricks but not much bite… orochimaru got pwned many times, i guess kabuto is gonna find out what it feels like. lol

So I will approach each topic without replying anyone specifically.

1. Naruto vs Pain

Naruto knew a lot about a Pain, he didn’t knew everything, but he knew a lot, the only power he figured out alone was Hell Realm’s reviving jutsu, it’s true that he saw Shinra Tensei but he wouldn’t find out the 5 seconds gap just like that.

Now even knowing a lot, he was defeated, if not for Hinata, Naruto would have been defeated. Well he would eventually get some help but that’s because he was in Konoha, Jiraya was in Ame, alone, he had to figure out Pain from zero, fight him at 100% and even so, Nagato admitted himself, that if Jiraya knew about the 6 bodies, he would have won.

If Naruto could’ve won from zero information, I don’t know for sure, it can’t be proven because it never happened, but if he had no info IMO he couldn’t win because even Naruto would waste too much chakra, and Nagato would eventually come on top.

So my point is, I don’t underestimated Naruto at all (he sure is at “Sannin level”), he is the strongest Konoha shinobi right now, BUT he is not yet at Jiraya’s level, he will surpass him of course, but I don’t think he has done it already.

And yes Jiraya was stronger than Orochimaru, Itachi said if he fought Jiraya both would probably die, but Orochimaru was defeated like nothing.

PS to Ramrok: Sennin isn’t a level either, it means “Sage”.

PS to Painlover: using frogs is considered a weapon not a handicap.

2. Kakashi

I don’t remember who said he wasn’t dead, because dead people don’t see stuff like that, looooool how do you know? Have you experienced it already? Am I talking with Jesus or something? lol really funny. He was dead, talking with his DEAD father, but he was brought back while his father went on after being forgiven.

3. Kabuto

Yeah I agree Painlover, Kabuto will be interesting to see, in part I he was at Kakashi’s level, now if he controlled Orochimaru’s power, he is really something. I hope too it’s him in control and I can’t wait to see his fight with Sasuke, because he said he would avenge Oro’s death. But I would love to see Kabuto vs Kakashi too, they both have become stronger.

By the way about OP, I don’t know why you Painlover hate it so much (of course it’s stupid to compare Pain with Blackbeard, it’s a completely different universe) but OP is great, I personally rank OP side by side with Naruto (huum almost lol).

Come on guys..I know some of your theories or statements hinged on him
been alive (kakashi)but he was dead lol.
And now he’s alive isn’t life grand”oh me sides”

When you mentioned his smarts and gave an e.g of when he unravelled tsuande
attack on his nervous systerm.I just saw that as his Medical knowledge coming
thru.I’am saying he’s not smart,he’d have to be,to be Oro servant for so long lol.

This hypothetical argument about naruto beating all the realms or Jiraiya is done
Naruto won and was victorious.Jiraiya lost and is dead.lol.When Naruto stood
alone in front of nagato at the end he could of killed him if he wanted too,where
as Nagato tried and failed to kill or ensnare naruto.

I think you’re selling naruto short. Sure he had info on pain but that’s why jiraiya died. He knew the only way to beat pain was to find out the secret behind his jutsu. With that said lets look at the battle between naruto and pain. When Yahniko pain finally got his powers back, there were still 3 pains left including him. Plus even if pain was at full power I don’t know if that would have stopped naruto from killing the other pain anyways. Remember he only took out one pain with the Rassenshuriken. The first pain was kill when it attacked Tsunade, There’s no way pain gravity jutsu saves him, naruto was just too fast on the attack. The summoning pain was killed when a combination of naruto and the frogs use smoke to blind all of the pains while Gambuta swallowed both naruto and animal summoning pain. We all know what happened after that. The only pain that was killed by naruto rassenshuriken and might have been save by sheri tensi was the one pain that used taijutsu and there’s no way that pain would have beaten naruto in a one-on-one taijutsu battle while he’s in sage mode. Which leaves the other pains that naruto did kill even when Yahniko pains full power was back….Stop trying to sell naruto short. He beat pain…period

The mighty devas powers were somthing that had to be seen. Chibaku tensei had no warning, bansho tenin was somthing that caught even someone with fukusakus exp level off gaurd. (yes fukusaku who was old when J man was a young guy.) When Naruto got poked fulla holes and caught by Pain it was pain’s asinine sadism that freed naruto. Stabbing a young girl for coming to save someone she loves should have touched the Reningan user but no he was just excited to see the fox show up until the fox reminded him that Kyuubi does not translate into punk in any language. And who can say Natruto did not finish the fight on his own

None of this is to say that pain diddn’t wreck Everybodies day by killing dozens if not hundreds of shinobi, KILL J man Kakashi Shizune, whoop Ebisu and dang near kill iruka Tsunade and Hinata. That is also not to say anyone else besides madara would have won that fight. Also pain was momentarily depleted, But balance that against the face that naruto was using techs from that very same day haddnt slept due to training and had trained all bloody day.
GOOOD FIGHT!

1) “the real one is not here” This cryptic little waste of time basically baffled the village and Naruto until later in the fight. Tactically it did not mean anything to Naruto until Pain started regenerating bodies then he figured out he would have to fight them over and over until he found the real one. Which dumb as he is, he would have figure it out anyway, especially in sage mode where he could sense chakra.

2) That Pain used more than 1 body. Yeah real tactical advantage there when all 6 are standing in front of you. Gee I wonder if I am supposed to fight all of them at once?

3) That each Pain had a special ability… Well duh…again that one should have been obvious from the attack on the village.

4) All the stuff the slugs told him. Now here was the real help, especially for someone as thick headed as Naruto to have a talking insect on his shoulder telling specifically what each Pain did and how it worked while he was standing in front of them.

Lets look at the facts about what information Pain knew about Naruto and the village and whether it meant anything in the battle.

1) EVERYTHNG except sage mode and the sage part became obvious pretty quickly.

Keep in mind Akatsuki had bee keeping tabs on Naruto with Zetsu actually watching him fight with Sasuke on one occasion, and Tobi informed Pain that Naruto would not be somebody he could reason with. Tobi (Madara), Sasuke, and Itachi were all from Konohagakure and even Kisame been there for a short time. Speaking of Saske, he was his best friend for how many years?

The one thing they did not know or seem to even get about Naruto is just how determined he is and how much heart he has. He is continually underestimated on this point and for this reason he continues to prevail.

Whether or not Madara knows Naruto is the 4th son I don’t know but I suspect he does.

Apples to apples Naruto beat Pain, with a hell of a lot less tactical knowledge about Pain, than Pain had about him. I am sure the Sage mode was a surprise but it’s not like he had never seen Jiraiya in sage mode so he did have a clue what is was about.

I think we can agree Naruto is a solid S-class ninja.

no we are not talking about how much naruto knew about pain… we are talking about wether naruto could beat pain without help, wether the help he got was actually that significant at all…

naruto would have won even without knowing about pain… read what i replied to Daniel… he would have beat those realms even without the slug trying to help naruto… the tips he got from the slug were hardly much of a factor in naruto’s tactics as diversion+1hit ko is what naruto does best.

like i said… your focused on naruto’s support too much to see naruto’s capability of beating pain even without support… i guess you still love pain even in death.

kabuto… people have reason to underestimate him… both kabuto and orochimaru arent all that, combined sure they are a threat but not as big as pain or madara… im really not thinking about kabuto right now cuz there no information on his status right now, i dont wanna make weak theories unless i have some facts to go with… so for now ill see where kishi wants to bring us… sasuke? madara? kabuto? kage meeting? danzo? cloud ninja? killer bee? naruto?… so ill see what kishi wants to focus on after this pain-ful ordeal. hehe.

well thats true in a sense but even so we are not talking about how much pein knew about naruto…we are talking about how much naruto knew about pein.

naruto would not have won if he did not know peins secrets.

and he would not have won wthout the toads…..although he would have done just as good if not better then jiraiya…maybe 4 peins dead.

naruto does have a alot of ponetial i will give him that.

but im think more about kabuto….people seriously underestimate him…….he will have tsunade+ororchimaru skill level.