To daniel, The DB series was ruined by those reptive villians, it was basicly 1 guy after the other but they were all the same, ohh I am going to do this and I am going to do that cause I am so powerfull. Hey look a monkey, hey why is that monkey gold? I died, now how did that happen?
I highly doubt kishi will make the same mistakes, any way we already have madara going I am madara, you wanting him to say I am madara in madara’s body is asking to much, no one talks that way. The tobito thery is long dead, kishi has already made sevral chapters saying who madara is, and he also revealed why madara is still alive, read back, to where madara talks about his chackra when he first caught sasuke.
Are we gonna have this discussion again? I’m not asking to Madara saying he is Madara in Madara’s body, of course that’s stupid. I explained the chakra thing, chakra itself doesn’t turn a human immortal, chakra is power, stamina, Madara talked about his chakra because he was talking about the generic characteristics of the Uchihas: Sharingan and Strong chakra, he said his was even greater to give the idea of how powerful he was even between the Uchihas. Every “immortal” we saw in Naruto series had a method, jutsu, to do that, chakra is the “gas” to make jutsu, probably Madara’s immortal technique, being the most advanced also requires a lot of chakra combined with the EMS, and that’s why Madara was able to develop that.
But I agree with the DB thing, for me DB is Part I, the Z series have good fights but the story is poor (except maybe the sayan saga), and I don’t even count GT in, because it wasn’t made by Toriyama.
you just made a good point there danie, ok we know of 5 immortals in naruto universe.
1 is the guy with the hearts-immortal thru takeing others hearts
2 is the guy that was with 1-true immortal
3 is orchumaru-immortal thru takeing others bodys
4 is possibly pain-possibly thru is eyes
5 is tobi/madara-method is unknown
Ok daniel you notice some thing?
None of them use the same method, so why would kishi make another number 3?
ps. it is rummored that the demon that fathered the uchiha clan was one of the tailed beasts, if that is the case it is possible that the 1st found this out, the 1st was able to forcefully seal the tailed beasts chackra, if that is the case it is possible that he could have used that same technequ on madara, which might explain why he is a shell of his former self, we also know that there are 2 of those necklese that naruto wears, so where is the 2nd? possible sealed around madara’s neck?
The guy who was partnered with Kakuzu (guy with hearts) wasn’t immortal in the sense of not aging. He was immortal in the sense of not being able to be killed, so it isn’t comparable to the other “immortals”.
There is no evidence that Pain is immortal in the sense of not aging, though its possible the consciousness of Pain (whoever that is) can live on indefinitely. If that’s the case it’s because he keeps using new bodies. Same concept as Orochimaru, just a different method and with more bodies so its more efficient.
So let’s look at the abilities next to each other more closely: Kakuzu used the hearts of his defeated enemy ninja to extend his life and elemental ability. Orochimaru transferred into the bodies of young ninja, gaining their life and abilities. The third possible immortal, Pain can take over multiple bodies and control all as if they were himself, using their life and abilities. Kinda seems like a pattern to me. Some are more advanced than others because of the intelligence or natural ability of the user, but they all revolve around the same concept: Using other ninja’s bodies (or the essential body parts) to extend their life and expand abilities. The rule in the naruto universe seems to be that a person cannot live forever without absorbing the life of another in some way.
So it isn’t so farfetched that Uchiha Madara was able to develop his own technique utilizing the same concept of taking the body of another to extend life. Of course, he would choose a young Uchiha who had unlocked the sharingan so he could retain or at least regain his abilities. And he would preferably choose one who would draw the least attention, like one presumed dead.
azrael firstly pains guys were all dead, people jeriah killed, also immortal does not mean the person does not age, all immortal means is you live forever. My point stands cause none of them actualy use the same methode,
Man I wish kishi would just come out and say pubicly that tobi is not useing obito’s body to end this dumb debate, tobi is madara,as stated in the manga, as can be proven, as there is enought evidence to prove,
If madara truly wanted a new body, and this is the part that makes the obito thery realy dumb, why didn’t he take itachi’s? Itachi was still a kid around the same age as obito and itachi was known to be an elite from a young age, so why go for a broken, crushed and batered body that is missing an eye when itachi was right there. We know itachi was on a battle field at the age of 5, madara could have easily grabed him, he also know madara has no trouble getting into the village cause he was in it dureing and before to masacer.
good point… that’s what i’m talking about way way way back then… i just gave up on debating coz it doesn’t make any sense anymore…
ok… let’s say obito’s eyes are not crushd and his skull is still intact… but obito said… his body is almost crushed and it is numb… http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/13/
why would madara need a half paralized body?
good point for deathwalker… at age 11 itachi is in akatsuki… why not take his body? it’s more elite we presume… than a late bloomer obito…
zetsu will get in an arguement, a bad arguement, it will end up in terable jutsu’s being used and entire villages destroyed, but in the end zetsu will win in his fight against zetsu.
What difference does it make if Pain’s bodies were dead? They’re certainly not any more. Anyway, that doesn’t affect my point at all. In fact if dead bodies can be used that way, wouldn’t it give much more leeway to Tobito theorists since Obito could have actually died and STILL be used? I’m definitely not saying that’s the case, I’m just saying the ninja being used to extend life being dead or alive isn’t relevant to my point. The fact that they are being used in the first place is.
As for Hidan, immortal can be defined 2 different ways:
1) Never aging
2) Being invincible to any disease or attack
Being one doesn’t necessarily mean being the other. We can see Hidan will live through any attack, but we don’t know how he ages. The other characters you mentioned can be killed, but they don’t show signs of age. It’s opposite and therefore not related abilities.
Itachi was not a viable candidate. Look at the timeline. Itachi should be 5 at the time of Kakashi Gaiden. He graduated the academy at 7 and obtained sharingan at 8. That means at the time, he was an inferior candidate to Obito, a chuunin with the sharingan. It was 3 years too early for Itachi to be even considered.
In regards to your comment 150:
No way. The battle would be fierce, but IMO zetsu would be the winner.
The problim with pain is we dont even know if he is useing bodys, all we know is he has 6 and they look like people jeriah killed, and he can only do it cause of his eyes, also I was under the assumchen that itachi and kakashi were around the same age but however I am not sure about that. As for the imortal thing, I ment the true meaning of immortality, which is liveing for ever. In reality there is no such thing as immortality, every thing dies. The only thing I am trying to put out there is that kishi has already said tobi is madara, so why try to say he is some one else? There is no point for madara to use any ones body except his own. I can’t belive people read a fanfiction and assume it is real so easily, and no matter how many times it is pointed out to be false they still try to say it is real. I am sick of this thery and the no stop posting of it every where.
Tobito side and anti tobito side, Feel free to add if I forget any.
1:A:They look alike dress alike and have the same hair.
1:C:Big deal, they are from the same family so they will look alike, lots of people have that same hair and madara could have easily cut his hair. As for the clothing, he have yet to see it so that is speculation.
1:R:They do look alike but he is a closer match to madara then tobi, it shows tobi with long hair, real long hair, you know how long it take to grow your hair long, about 6 inches of growth a year. (I hit against)
2:A:Obito is an anagram for tobi.
2:C:firstly a anagram has to have the same amount of letters, you got an extra o, also you can rearange a lot of words and remove letters to make them say another word, does that mean they are all related.
2:R:In japenese writeing it is the context of the words that have the most meaning, but tobi is not actualy an anagram cause it does not match the criteria for an anagram. (No bearing on the idenity)
3:A:He only has one eye, and it is the eye obito still has.
3:C:It has only shown 1 eye, that does not mean there is only 1, untill he removes his mask this is just speculation.
3:R:Sence we have not seen his whole face this is a mute point and only speculation (no bearing)
4:A:You never saw Obito Die
4:C:Obito said he was dieing, rin said he was dieing, minato said he was dead, he got crushed by tons of rocks not once but 2 times.
4:R:Mistakes can always be made, but I have no reason to doubt the judgemnet of a medical ninja and a future hokage. (2 Against)
This is all I can remember for now, I will post back later with more, feel free to add anything I forgot, I tryed to post from 1 side then the other then my own point
there is not such thing as immortal character in naruto because if you drop all
five of them into the sun not even supposedly “immortal” hidan can survive so
nobody is immortal they just have something some sort of jutsu that can
extend their existence. maybe extension up to 100 years. ok im with that but
still you’re not immortal. (example: MAJIN BOO such a character yet not
immortal)
to daniel:
dude the naruto future you did was good man. i mean its not true what you
wrote thats your point of prediction but its cool tho cuz people can generate
own theory by reading yours maybe a different opinion but its gives idea.
to others:
intead of opposing daniels prediction just read it and then generate yours
maybe you can make a better idea then share it with everybody. you know
instead of arguing about something lets share it to benefit everybody.
To daniel your the one who brought this up again man, I just thought I would try to kill it now before we have 5 to 10 people posting ohh tobi is obito. You already know how fast people take to what they read rather it be a prediction, a thery, or what ever, people read part of it then try to use it as facts. If you remember right I am the one who said we should drop it till the anime proves it one way or another, but with it keep being brought back up (I know it isn’t you every time) it is not dropping it.
So I just reread the kishi interview and he said that the whole thing with kakashi is dark blue.
For those who dont know, dark blue can signafy a few things, Peaceful, tranquil, cold and depressing.
Now if tobi were useing obito’s body, obitp that guy who changed kakashi’s life and turned kakashi into the man he is today, why would it be dark blue instead of red?
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:38 am
To daniel, The DB series was ruined by those reptive villians, it was basicly 1 guy after the other but they were all the same, ohh I am going to do this and I am going to do that cause I am so powerfull. Hey look a monkey, hey why is that monkey gold? I died, now how did that happen?
I highly doubt kishi will make the same mistakes, any way we already have madara going I am madara, you wanting him to say I am madara in madara’s body is asking to much, no one talks that way. The tobito thery is long dead, kishi has already made sevral chapters saying who madara is, and he also revealed why madara is still alive, read back, to where madara talks about his chackra when he first caught sasuke.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 am
To DeathWalker:
Are we gonna have this discussion again? I’m not asking to Madara saying he is Madara in Madara’s body, of course that’s stupid. I explained the chakra thing, chakra itself doesn’t turn a human immortal, chakra is power, stamina, Madara talked about his chakra because he was talking about the generic characteristics of the Uchihas: Sharingan and Strong chakra, he said his was even greater to give the idea of how powerful he was even between the Uchihas. Every “immortal” we saw in Naruto series had a method, jutsu, to do that, chakra is the “gas” to make jutsu, probably Madara’s immortal technique, being the most advanced also requires a lot of chakra combined with the EMS, and that’s why Madara was able to develop that.
But I agree with the DB thing, for me DB is Part I, the Z series have good fights but the story is poor (except maybe the sayan saga), and I don’t even count GT in, because it wasn’t made by Toriyama.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
you just made a good point there danie, ok we know of 5 immortals in naruto universe.
1 is the guy with the hearts-immortal thru takeing others hearts
2 is the guy that was with 1-true immortal
3 is orchumaru-immortal thru takeing others bodys
4 is possibly pain-possibly thru is eyes
5 is tobi/madara-method is unknown
Ok daniel you notice some thing?
None of them use the same method, so why would kishi make another number 3?
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
ps. it is rummored that the demon that fathered the uchiha clan was one of the tailed beasts, if that is the case it is possible that the 1st found this out, the 1st was able to forcefully seal the tailed beasts chackra, if that is the case it is possible that he could have used that same technequ on madara, which might explain why he is a shell of his former self, we also know that there are 2 of those necklese that naruto wears, so where is the 2nd? possible sealed around madara’s neck?
Just a thery I thought I would throw out there.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:37 am
To DeathWalker:
The guy who was partnered with Kakuzu (guy with hearts) wasn’t immortal in the sense of not aging. He was immortal in the sense of not being able to be killed, so it isn’t comparable to the other “immortals”.
There is no evidence that Pain is immortal in the sense of not aging, though its possible the consciousness of Pain (whoever that is) can live on indefinitely. If that’s the case it’s because he keeps using new bodies. Same concept as Orochimaru, just a different method and with more bodies so its more efficient.
So let’s look at the abilities next to each other more closely: Kakuzu used the hearts of his defeated enemy ninja to extend his life and elemental ability. Orochimaru transferred into the bodies of young ninja, gaining their life and abilities. The third possible immortal, Pain can take over multiple bodies and control all as if they were himself, using their life and abilities. Kinda seems like a pattern to me. Some are more advanced than others because of the intelligence or natural ability of the user, but they all revolve around the same concept: Using other ninja’s bodies (or the essential body parts) to extend their life and expand abilities. The rule in the naruto universe seems to be that a person cannot live forever without absorbing the life of another in some way.
So it isn’t so farfetched that Uchiha Madara was able to develop his own technique utilizing the same concept of taking the body of another to extend life. Of course, he would choose a young Uchiha who had unlocked the sharingan so he could retain or at least regain his abilities. And he would preferably choose one who would draw the least attention, like one presumed dead.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:10 am
azrael firstly pains guys were all dead, people jeriah killed, also immortal does not mean the person does not age, all immortal means is you live forever. My point stands cause none of them actualy use the same methode,
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
Man I wish kishi would just come out and say pubicly that tobi is not useing obito’s body to end this dumb debate, tobi is madara,as stated in the manga, as can be proven, as there is enought evidence to prove,
If madara truly wanted a new body, and this is the part that makes the obito thery realy dumb, why didn’t he take itachi’s? Itachi was still a kid around the same age as obito and itachi was known to be an elite from a young age, so why go for a broken, crushed and batered body that is missing an eye when itachi was right there. We know itachi was on a battle field at the age of 5, madara could have easily grabed him, he also know madara has no trouble getting into the village cause he was in it dureing and before to masacer.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 am
to deathwalker:
good point… that’s what i’m talking about way way way back then… i just gave up on debating coz it doesn’t make any sense anymore…
ok… let’s say obito’s eyes are not crushd and his skull is still intact… but obito said… his body is almost crushed and it is numb…
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/13/
why would madara need a half paralized body?
good point for deathwalker… at age 11 itachi is in akatsuki… why not take his body? it’s more elite we presume… than a late bloomer obito…
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Okay, its obvious that at some point, it’s going to be Sasuke vs. Madara and Naruto vs. Pein, and Kisame vs. Suigetsu.
Who do you think will fight Konan and Zetsu?
Just curious
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
zetsu will get in an arguement, a bad arguement, it will end up in terable jutsu’s being used and entire villages destroyed, but in the end zetsu will win in his fight against zetsu.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 am
i want to see kisame fight seriously…
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
is ICHA ICHA TACTICS is written by j-man??
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/245/11/
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
To DeathWalker:
What difference does it make if Pain’s bodies were dead? They’re certainly not any more. Anyway, that doesn’t affect my point at all. In fact if dead bodies can be used that way, wouldn’t it give much more leeway to Tobito theorists since Obito could have actually died and STILL be used? I’m definitely not saying that’s the case, I’m just saying the ninja being used to extend life being dead or alive isn’t relevant to my point. The fact that they are being used in the first place is.
As for Hidan, immortal can be defined 2 different ways:
1) Never aging
2) Being invincible to any disease or attack
Being one doesn’t necessarily mean being the other. We can see Hidan will live through any attack, but we don’t know how he ages. The other characters you mentioned can be killed, but they don’t show signs of age. It’s opposite and therefore not related abilities.
Itachi was not a viable candidate. Look at the timeline. Itachi should be 5 at the time of Kakashi Gaiden. He graduated the academy at 7 and obtained sharingan at 8. That means at the time, he was an inferior candidate to Obito, a chuunin with the sharingan. It was 3 years too early for Itachi to be even considered.
In regards to your comment 150:
No way. The battle would be fierce, but IMO zetsu would be the winner.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
The problim with pain is we dont even know if he is useing bodys, all we know is he has 6 and they look like people jeriah killed, and he can only do it cause of his eyes, also I was under the assumchen that itachi and kakashi were around the same age but however I am not sure about that. As for the imortal thing, I ment the true meaning of immortality, which is liveing for ever. In reality there is no such thing as immortality, every thing dies. The only thing I am trying to put out there is that kishi has already said tobi is madara, so why try to say he is some one else? There is no point for madara to use any ones body except his own. I can’t belive people read a fanfiction and assume it is real so easily, and no matter how many times it is pointed out to be false they still try to say it is real. I am sick of this thery and the no stop posting of it every where.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Tobito side and anti tobito side, Feel free to add if I forget any.
1:A:They look alike dress alike and have the same hair.
1:C:Big deal, they are from the same family so they will look alike, lots of people have that same hair and madara could have easily cut his hair. As for the clothing, he have yet to see it so that is speculation.
1:R:They do look alike but he is a closer match to madara then tobi, it shows tobi with long hair, real long hair, you know how long it take to grow your hair long, about 6 inches of growth a year. (I hit against)
2:A:Obito is an anagram for tobi.
2:C:firstly a anagram has to have the same amount of letters, you got an extra o, also you can rearange a lot of words and remove letters to make them say another word, does that mean they are all related.
2:R:In japenese writeing it is the context of the words that have the most meaning, but tobi is not actualy an anagram cause it does not match the criteria for an anagram. (No bearing on the idenity)
3:A:He only has one eye, and it is the eye obito still has.
3:C:It has only shown 1 eye, that does not mean there is only 1, untill he removes his mask this is just speculation.
3:R:Sence we have not seen his whole face this is a mute point and only speculation (no bearing)
4:A:You never saw Obito Die
4:C:Obito said he was dieing, rin said he was dieing, minato said he was dead, he got crushed by tons of rocks not once but 2 times.
4:R:Mistakes can always be made, but I have no reason to doubt the judgemnet of a medical ninja and a future hokage. (2 Against)
This is all I can remember for now, I will post back later with more, feel free to add anything I forgot, I tryed to post from 1 side then the other then my own point
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
there is not such thing as immortal character in naruto because if you drop all
five of them into the sun not even supposedly “immortal” hidan can survive so
nobody is immortal they just have something some sort of jutsu that can
extend their existence. maybe extension up to 100 years. ok im with that but
still you’re not immortal. (example: MAJIN BOO such a character yet not
immortal)
to daniel:
dude the naruto future you did was good man. i mean its not true what you
wrote thats your point of prediction but its cool tho cuz people can generate
own theory by reading yours maybe a different opinion but its gives idea.
to others:
intead of opposing daniels prediction just read it and then generate yours
maybe you can make a better idea then share it with everybody. you know
instead of arguing about something lets share it to benefit everybody.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
To daniel your the one who brought this up again man, I just thought I would try to kill it now before we have 5 to 10 people posting ohh tobi is obito. You already know how fast people take to what they read rather it be a prediction, a thery, or what ever, people read part of it then try to use it as facts. If you remember right I am the one who said we should drop it till the anime proves it one way or another, but with it keep being brought back up (I know it isn’t you every time) it is not dropping it.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:21 pm
to everyone..
true love in naruto…
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/281/13/
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
So I just reread the kishi interview and he said that the whole thing with kakashi is dark blue.
For those who dont know, dark blue can signafy a few things, Peaceful, tranquil, cold and depressing.
Now if tobi were useing obito’s body, obitp that guy who changed kakashi’s life and turned kakashi into the man he is today, why would it be dark blue instead of red?
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
what could be more pleasing and amusing than this??^^
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/286/15/