to daniel that picture was not about only the eyes, if it was I would only have posted the eyes, I was trying to the the eyes, the eye brows, the lines, I tryed to line them up perfect on both pictures, basicly the picture is about the whole face, forget about the whole tobi is obito thery dont take that into account, then look at the picture carfuly and see which face lines up with tobi’s face the best, look at every point, the eyes, the eye shap the size and shape of the eye brows, the lines on the faces. Every aspect.
If you remove the bias you will see madara is a way closer match then obito is.
somehow i think orochimaru and tobi are related, two inmortals (because orochimaru its not dead, c’mon minikiuby can’t kill him in a bad ass fight, how little saske in a weird blame fight killed him…no way)
But I already said, in that pic they look really alike, but I already shown you that the eyes change with the expression, as the rest of the face, you are comparing a child with 13 years old with an adult.
I can take other pictures where Tobi looks very much liek Obito if he were 26/27 years old.
See how Kishi draws wrinkles? They very different from Madara’s face, he doesn’t even look old besides that lines, for me they are scars, for you wrinkles, it’s just a difference in opinion.
We’re having the same discussion all over again, and there is not point is all these, we haven’t evidences to prove ourselfs right, you just have different views of the story and the drawing, until we see Madara’s entire face it’s useless to have this discussion, we have already agreed with that.
to Loki: ok now u are olmost changing subject but np^^
but we ae talking about the age!!! deidare was still young the 1st and 2nd were normal humands??? half of the akatsuki members are weird freaks!!! (exept itachi)
kisame, deidera,zetsu,kakuzo and pein …
but we KNOW madara!!!we saw him!!! we know he IS human just like the 1st but kakazu is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to freakkyyyyyyy… brrrrrr…
madrane: Itachi is not a normal human. He looks normal but his genetics is different. All Uchichas is like an experiment of evoliution and 1st was so as well.
Hidan looks just like a simple human, but he is imortal.
Godamnit holmes! I spent 2 hours finding evidence against Daniel! 2 friggin hours I could have spent sleeping or beeing drunk! I want my post to apear! It was just before my last post!
daniel the problim your makeing it your treating every thing the same.
Ok take a old black person, an old white person, and old mexican, asian. Then compare there faces, they will be defrent cause they are defrent, humans have defrent breeds that age defrently just like dogs and cats have. Ps. The first line above and under the eye are not wrinkles or scars, they are part of how kishi drew madara’s face.
If I took all the stuff I have shown you into a court room I would win, but it is not enought for you cause you belive in the thery, and people who belive in things don’t have an easy time seeing stuff that proves them wrong, it is not your fault you don’t see the truth even though it is obvious, it is the way we humans are programed to be. Also I will continue to post as long as other people are posting, so instead of telling me to stop, maybe you should talk to them.
But enought of this untill some on else posts about it.
So what does every one think will be happening in the manga in the near or far future?
Ok you have a point there with the wrinkles stuff that can be different I’ve to admit. But see it this way, for you the fact that Madara’s present eye have the same wrinkle under it (yes it is a wrinkle even if not a old man’s one) that Madara’s original eye is a prove, but Obito’s eye could also get that same wrinkle in this last 16/17 years, for example I’m now 20 and I already have wrinkles that I didn’t had with 13.
So as for you that eye line its obvious prove that Madara is in his original body, for me the fact that Madara only possess one eye, have his nickname spelt (not writhed) as anagram of Obito, have a similar outfit (without the cloak), the fact that we never see Obito’s body being recovered and the Goggles (the only thing left of Obito outside the cave) showed in the memorial when there was no other personal object there, the fact that Madara only attacked Konoha with Kyuubi one year after Obito’s “death” why not earlier? Are clear hints that something is no right about Obito and that Madara “maybe is using his body”.
Sorry I had to post this, because I can’t wait to see other people’s comments for now, I’ve to study for now. Sorry see ya later.
You already have wrinkles around your eye? Man you gotta relax and lay off the stress, I live in california, lots of sun and sun can wrinkle you and I have no wrinkles on my face.
Also the lines the eyes, they are just point’s that look the same, I was trying to show as many of them as I could, like the eye brows are also almost exacly the same. I am just trying to put a bunch of small proffs together to make a bigger picture, which is why I try to post new pictures when every we get new pictures in the manga.
I am not saying madara is in his normal body cause of 1 small thing but many small things. But right now you are talking in could’s if could change or it might have changed, I am just trying to go with the facts we currently know and those facts are the shapes of the eyes the wrinkles or lines or what ever they are around the eyes, the eye brows, basicly i compared every thing visable that I could. I also tryed doing the same with defrent pictures of obito (so it would not be to biased), the one I used is the one the lined up the best.
Ps am I the only one that noticed this weird thing, all the pictures of madara have the left side of his face part covered by his hair, and now as tobi he shows the left side but hides the right? Any one else figure that out yet?
I know you’re getting every little trace of Tobi and Madara’s face to prove your point, and I give credit to that. But I wasn’t talking of old men’s wrinkles loool, I’m talking of wrinkles you get under the eyes or in your forehead that you get during at this age still, you can’t tell me that your face is the same as when you had 13.
I didn’t said “if” or “could” in everything, in my previous comment, the most of it is fact, all the similarities are fact, you don’t see them recovering Obito’s body or even mentioning that, that is also fact. It’s also fact that he covers his left eye (strangely the one Obito had left) you can say he covers it and still have it, but what is the sense of that? I heard people saying the keeps his eye covered because it is too powerful or because he just likes the look. Man is not because of the power, Madara is seeking to improve his Sharingan even more, or at least recover his old one, he says that clearly in the Rain Country, and its also nonsense the fashion reasons, we also know MS works in solo, each eye have a different power, so what is the point of covering one? Other said that it is his trump card, if that was the case why did he shown it to Sasuke (he clearly doesn’t trust Sasuke) so that is also nonsense, the only logical reason is because he doesn’t have the eye.
As you see I don’t have only “ifs” I have also facts like you. And as you know Kishi doesn’t make things without a good reason, and this is not just one little thing, it’s a bunch of them.
To Skull:
Okay dude, you still think tobi is using obitos body, then answer this:
Why does Tobi’s body have the same mark as madara did when he was younger? Look under young madaras eyes, he has some sort of bags, and look at madaras face in 396, still the same bigs, but now more.
Look at young itachi, he has some markings (lines,bags…etc) on his face. Look at future itachi, still has the same markings.
Madara is still in his same body.
Now im not saying kisame would say “hi obito” Thats stupid and pointless. I was saying that kisame would not say “i didnt know it would be you madara” when looking at tobis face. Since he said that, and said madara right after seeing tobis face, that means he saw madaras body, meaning tobi is madara in madararas own body.
Okay, lets me explain another way why it isnt obitos body.
1. We saw obitos body totally crushed. Alot of people only remember the part where the boulder owned his eye. The next few pages show more boulders that fall on his entire body, thus his entire body is crushed, meaning his whole face would be abnormal if revived. But no, it is not. We saw partial of tobis face and it looks fine, just a few bags. So no, it is not obitos body.
And another thing:
This thing gets me annoyed alot. People think tobi is obitos body because of the sharingan. Dudes, like i said before, obitos whole body got crushed, not just his one eye, his other eye too. Look at the pages after obitos eye got crushed, you will see more boulders fall and crush his entire body. So that means his other eye would be completely smashed, if it wasnt already smashed by the first boulder that fell on it.
We saw tobi keep showing his sharingan, the sharingan wasnt messed up, it looked perfectly normal.
What else do you tobito theorists want. You do know that the whole tobito theory started off as a fanfiction about kakashi right?
Madara is such a homo……..sasuke is just falling into madaras hands can’t he see that……does sasuke want to attack the village because his brother died or does he want to do it because he’s just a crazy person….I think naruto is going to use the power itachi gave him during his and sasuke’s fight I know sasuke’s is going to die it’s proven I think well…..
he can’t come back to the village and he hates everyone….*gasp* what if sasuke ask naruto to kill him that would be soooooo sad and awsome
The power that Itachi gave to naruto is to control the kyuubi in a normal state and use its chakra w/out going insane and unconcious..thats why itachi said “IVE GIVEN YOU SOME OF MY POWER, I HOPE THE DAY NEVER COMES WHEN YOU HAVE TO USE IT” i think its the kyuubi power..releasing the seals.. because itachi wouldnt be concerned if its just a fair power that naruto can use..instead all akatsuki might have a forbidden technique in w/c they can control over the bijuu instead of the bijuu controlling them..then i think the most devastating powers in the ninja world is its in naruto..the power that madara is after..
Itachi dosen’t want naruto to have to use it cause it is supose to kill sasuke, the power he gave naruto is like a fail safe, if sasuke feel into madara’s hands and turned on the village itachi wanted there to be a way to stop him.
Honestly, neither picture seems like a very definitive match to me. There are similarities to both, but nothing that can’t be attributed to the artist’s style. As was said before, expression, etc. plays a big role in how they look. If it was a photo, it’d be a deal breaker but it’s very ambigious with manga art even when lining them up so well. Then again, some people still might catch little details I miss, so don’t let this discourage anyone else who wants to check it out.
To Gameboy:
Marks are tough to discern with those lines on Tobi/Madara’s face. Its best to classify those as ambiguous since both sides seem to find likely reasons for them.
As for Kisame recognizing Madara, that doesn’t discount Tobito theory because of the fact that if Obito’s body is being used, it has been that way for several years, probably before becoming Mizukage. IF it’s Obito’s body, everyone who knows Madara at that time would recognize Obito’s as his own.
Besides, no one should recognize Madara’s own face because almost no one alive at this time was alive to see it other than on the big rock carving. Based on his current face’s aging/disfigurement, I doubt people would recognize him simply from his statue’s face. Now if he was able to put off signs of aging, leading to a relatively consistent face, its plausible. But if he can do that, its just as likely he could use another shinobi’s body to extend his life.
As for Obito’s body being totally crushed by the rocks, I think your arguement is incorrect. It’s doubtful he sustained much more damage than that of the initial group of rocks. With a pile of rocks that large on top of him to begin with, adding more rocks wouldn’t crush him more. The weight would be evenly distributed across the whole pile. Even massive amounts of additional weight would mostly be transferred straight to the ground surrounding him. The first pile forms a structure over him that supports further rock. How do you think people survive in avalanches and collapsed houses/buildings? Yes it’s rare people that do survive, but it does happen. The tons of rubble on top of them traps them keeping them from treating their initial injury. They bleed out, starve, or suffocate. THAT is what leads them to die. Not simply the crushing of their body. The condition we saw Obito in before the second group of rocks fell is most likely the condition he was in after they fell. I’m not saying this proves he lived or that it proves he’s part of Tobi, I’m just saying that by real world logic he was still alive (surely dying, but not dead) after the second pile of rocks fell.
okay who tha hell started this?? again with the tobito shit?!?!
itz really no fun and ya gonna have ta wait a bit more to find out the real identity jus like with pein…lets move on
here’s a more interestin’ question:
did the first hokage even die in the battle with madara or live afterwards because in the anime when he fought sarutobi he looked round his 30-40s but in the battle w/ madara he lookd younger—if he lived wat could’ve happend durin that time period maybe kakuzu really did kill him…im jus sayin
hahahyz!!..
i think madara and tobi are different people………..
tobi = 4th hokage..^_^….
4th=was corrupted during his battle againts ninetail fox….
4th teleportation jutsu = tobi’s advanceteleportation jutsu…..
4th was the one develop that jutsu=tobi have it…..
madaras ideology and sharingan=tobi
tobi=4th
madara=4th
= doesnt mean an equal but it signifies a connection….
June 17th, 2008 at 4:56 am
to daniel that picture was not about only the eyes, if it was I would only have posted the eyes, I was trying to the the eyes, the eye brows, the lines, I tryed to line them up perfect on both pictures, basicly the picture is about the whole face, forget about the whole tobi is obito thery dont take that into account, then look at the picture carfuly and see which face lines up with tobi’s face the best, look at every point, the eyes, the eye shap the size and shape of the eye brows, the lines on the faces. Every aspect.
If you remove the bias you will see madara is a way closer match then obito is.
June 17th, 2008 at 5:02 am
somehow i think orochimaru and tobi are related, two inmortals (because orochimaru its not dead, c’mon minikiuby can’t kill him in a bad ass fight, how little saske in a weird blame fight killed him…no way)
June 17th, 2008 at 5:03 am
you´ll see people
June 17th, 2008 at 5:15 am
To DeathWalker:
But I already said, in that pic they look really alike, but I already shown you that the eyes change with the expression, as the rest of the face, you are comparing a child with 13 years old with an adult.
I can take other pictures where Tobi looks very much liek Obito if he were 26/27 years old.
http://inarutonet.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/03.jpg
If you say that lines are wrinkles look at this:
http://inaruto.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/naruto-398-page-003.jpg
http://inaruto.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/naruto-ch279-p01.jpg
See how Kishi draws wrinkles? They very different from Madara’s face, he doesn’t even look old besides that lines, for me they are scars, for you wrinkles, it’s just a difference in opinion.
We’re having the same discussion all over again, and there is not point is all these, we haven’t evidences to prove ourselfs right, you just have different views of the story and the drawing, until we see Madara’s entire face it’s useless to have this discussion, we have already agreed with that.
June 17th, 2008 at 5:24 am
to Loki: ok now u are olmost changing subject but np^^
but we ae talking about the age!!! deidare was still young the 1st and 2nd were normal humands??? half of the akatsuki members are weird freaks!!! (exept itachi)
kisame, deidera,zetsu,kakuzo and pein …
but we KNOW madara!!!we saw him!!! we know he IS human just like the 1st but kakazu is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to freakkyyyyyyy… brrrrrr…
June 17th, 2008 at 5:43 am
madrane: Itachi is not a normal human. He looks normal but his genetics is different. All Uchichas is like an experiment of evoliution and 1st was so as well.
Hidan looks just like a simple human, but he is imortal.
June 17th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Godamnit holmes! I spent 2 hours finding evidence against Daniel! 2 friggin hours I could have spent sleeping or beeing drunk! I want my post to apear! It was just before my last post!
June 17th, 2008 at 6:05 am
daniel the problim your makeing it your treating every thing the same.
Ok take a old black person, an old white person, and old mexican, asian. Then compare there faces, they will be defrent cause they are defrent, humans have defrent breeds that age defrently just like dogs and cats have. Ps. The first line above and under the eye are not wrinkles or scars, they are part of how kishi drew madara’s face.
If I took all the stuff I have shown you into a court room I would win, but it is not enought for you cause you belive in the thery, and people who belive in things don’t have an easy time seeing stuff that proves them wrong, it is not your fault you don’t see the truth even though it is obvious, it is the way we humans are programed to be. Also I will continue to post as long as other people are posting, so instead of telling me to stop, maybe you should talk to them.
But enought of this untill some on else posts about it.
So what does every one think will be happening in the manga in the near or far future?
June 17th, 2008 at 6:31 am
To DeathWalker:
Ok you have a point there with the wrinkles stuff that can be different I’ve to admit. But see it this way, for you the fact that Madara’s present eye have the same wrinkle under it (yes it is a wrinkle even if not a old man’s one) that Madara’s original eye is a prove, but Obito’s eye could also get that same wrinkle in this last 16/17 years, for example I’m now 20 and I already have wrinkles that I didn’t had with 13.
So as for you that eye line its obvious prove that Madara is in his original body, for me the fact that Madara only possess one eye, have his nickname spelt (not writhed) as anagram of Obito, have a similar outfit (without the cloak), the fact that we never see Obito’s body being recovered and the Goggles (the only thing left of Obito outside the cave) showed in the memorial when there was no other personal object there, the fact that Madara only attacked Konoha with Kyuubi one year after Obito’s “death” why not earlier? Are clear hints that something is no right about Obito and that Madara “maybe is using his body”.
Sorry I had to post this, because I can’t wait to see other people’s comments for now, I’ve to study for now. Sorry see ya later.
June 17th, 2008 at 6:45 am
You already have wrinkles around your eye? Man you gotta relax and lay off the stress, I live in california, lots of sun and sun can wrinkle you and I have no wrinkles on my face.
Also the lines the eyes, they are just point’s that look the same, I was trying to show as many of them as I could, like the eye brows are also almost exacly the same. I am just trying to put a bunch of small proffs together to make a bigger picture, which is why I try to post new pictures when every we get new pictures in the manga.
I am not saying madara is in his normal body cause of 1 small thing but many small things. But right now you are talking in could’s if could change or it might have changed, I am just trying to go with the facts we currently know and those facts are the shapes of the eyes the wrinkles or lines or what ever they are around the eyes, the eye brows, basicly i compared every thing visable that I could. I also tryed doing the same with defrent pictures of obito (so it would not be to biased), the one I used is the one the lined up the best.
Ps am I the only one that noticed this weird thing, all the pictures of madara have the left side of his face part covered by his hair, and now as tobi he shows the left side but hides the right? Any one else figure that out yet?
June 17th, 2008 at 7:17 am
DeanWalker
And me i live in France. Pretty cool too lol
June 17th, 2008 at 7:19 am
To DeathWalker:
I know you’re getting every little trace of Tobi and Madara’s face to prove your point, and I give credit to that. But I wasn’t talking of old men’s wrinkles loool, I’m talking of wrinkles you get under the eyes or in your forehead that you get during at this age still, you can’t tell me that your face is the same as when you had 13.
I didn’t said “if” or “could” in everything, in my previous comment, the most of it is fact, all the similarities are fact, you don’t see them recovering Obito’s body or even mentioning that, that is also fact. It’s also fact that he covers his left eye (strangely the one Obito had left) you can say he covers it and still have it, but what is the sense of that? I heard people saying the keeps his eye covered because it is too powerful or because he just likes the look. Man is not because of the power, Madara is seeking to improve his Sharingan even more, or at least recover his old one, he says that clearly in the Rain Country, and its also nonsense the fashion reasons, we also know MS works in solo, each eye have a different power, so what is the point of covering one? Other said that it is his trump card, if that was the case why did he shown it to Sasuke (he clearly doesn’t trust Sasuke) so that is also nonsense, the only logical reason is because he doesn’t have the eye.
As you see I don’t have only “ifs” I have also facts like you. And as you know Kishi doesn’t make things without a good reason, and this is not just one little thing, it’s a bunch of them.
PS: I can’t start my study lool.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:01 am
To Skull:
Okay dude, you still think tobi is using obitos body, then answer this:
Why does Tobi’s body have the same mark as madara did when he was younger? Look under young madaras eyes, he has some sort of bags, and look at madaras face in 396, still the same bigs, but now more.
Look at young itachi, he has some markings (lines,bags…etc) on his face. Look at future itachi, still has the same markings.
Madara is still in his same body.
Now im not saying kisame would say “hi obito” Thats stupid and pointless. I was saying that kisame would not say “i didnt know it would be you madara” when looking at tobis face. Since he said that, and said madara right after seeing tobis face, that means he saw madaras body, meaning tobi is madara in madararas own body.
Okay, lets me explain another way why it isnt obitos body.
1. We saw obitos body totally crushed. Alot of people only remember the part where the boulder owned his eye. The next few pages show more boulders that fall on his entire body, thus his entire body is crushed, meaning his whole face would be abnormal if revived. But no, it is not. We saw partial of tobis face and it looks fine, just a few bags. So no, it is not obitos body.
And another thing:
This thing gets me annoyed alot. People think tobi is obitos body because of the sharingan. Dudes, like i said before, obitos whole body got crushed, not just his one eye, his other eye too. Look at the pages after obitos eye got crushed, you will see more boulders fall and crush his entire body. So that means his other eye would be completely smashed, if it wasnt already smashed by the first boulder that fell on it.
We saw tobi keep showing his sharingan, the sharingan wasnt messed up, it looked perfectly normal.
What else do you tobito theorists want. You do know that the whole tobito theory started off as a fanfiction about kakashi right?
June 17th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Madara is such a homo……..sasuke is just falling into madaras hands can’t he see that……does sasuke want to attack the village because his brother died or does he want to do it because he’s just a crazy person….I think naruto is going to use the power itachi gave him during his and sasuke’s fight I know sasuke’s is going to die it’s proven I think well…..
he can’t come back to the village and he hates everyone….*gasp* what if sasuke ask naruto to kill him that would be soooooo sad and awsome
June 17th, 2008 at 8:46 am
The power that Itachi gave to naruto is to control the kyuubi in a normal state and use its chakra w/out going insane and unconcious..thats why itachi said “IVE GIVEN YOU SOME OF MY POWER, I HOPE THE DAY NEVER COMES WHEN YOU HAVE TO USE IT” i think its the kyuubi power..releasing the seals.. because itachi wouldnt be concerned if its just a fair power that naruto can use..instead all akatsuki might have a forbidden technique in w/c they can control over the bijuu instead of the bijuu controlling them..then i think the most devastating powers in the ninja world is its in naruto..the power that madara is after..
June 17th, 2008 at 9:21 am
…
Itachi dosen’t want naruto to have to use it cause it is supose to kill sasuke, the power he gave naruto is like a fail safe, if sasuke feel into madara’s hands and turned on the village itachi wanted there to be a way to stop him.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:47 am
To Deathwalker:
Honestly, neither picture seems like a very definitive match to me. There are similarities to both, but nothing that can’t be attributed to the artist’s style. As was said before, expression, etc. plays a big role in how they look. If it was a photo, it’d be a deal breaker but it’s very ambigious with manga art even when lining them up so well. Then again, some people still might catch little details I miss, so don’t let this discourage anyone else who wants to check it out.
To Gameboy:
Marks are tough to discern with those lines on Tobi/Madara’s face. Its best to classify those as ambiguous since both sides seem to find likely reasons for them.
As for Kisame recognizing Madara, that doesn’t discount Tobito theory because of the fact that if Obito’s body is being used, it has been that way for several years, probably before becoming Mizukage. IF it’s Obito’s body, everyone who knows Madara at that time would recognize Obito’s as his own.
Besides, no one should recognize Madara’s own face because almost no one alive at this time was alive to see it other than on the big rock carving. Based on his current face’s aging/disfigurement, I doubt people would recognize him simply from his statue’s face. Now if he was able to put off signs of aging, leading to a relatively consistent face, its plausible. But if he can do that, its just as likely he could use another shinobi’s body to extend his life.
As for Obito’s body being totally crushed by the rocks, I think your arguement is incorrect. It’s doubtful he sustained much more damage than that of the initial group of rocks. With a pile of rocks that large on top of him to begin with, adding more rocks wouldn’t crush him more. The weight would be evenly distributed across the whole pile. Even massive amounts of additional weight would mostly be transferred straight to the ground surrounding him. The first pile forms a structure over him that supports further rock. How do you think people survive in avalanches and collapsed houses/buildings? Yes it’s rare people that do survive, but it does happen. The tons of rubble on top of them traps them keeping them from treating their initial injury. They bleed out, starve, or suffocate. THAT is what leads them to die. Not simply the crushing of their body. The condition we saw Obito in before the second group of rocks fell is most likely the condition he was in after they fell. I’m not saying this proves he lived or that it proves he’s part of Tobi, I’m just saying that by real world logic he was still alive (surely dying, but not dead) after the second pile of rocks fell.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Eh, sorry for not spacing out separate subject better. It’d be even messier if I reposted a correction so I’ll leave it as is…
June 17th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
okay who tha hell started this?? again with the tobito shit?!?!
itz really no fun and ya gonna have ta wait a bit more to find out the real identity jus like with pein…lets move on
here’s a more interestin’ question:
did the first hokage even die in the battle with madara or live afterwards because in the anime when he fought sarutobi he looked round his 30-40s but in the battle w/ madara he lookd younger—if he lived wat could’ve happend durin that time period maybe kakuzu really did kill him…im jus sayin
June 17th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
hahahyz!!..
i think madara and tobi are different people………..
tobi = 4th hokage..^_^….
4th=was corrupted during his battle againts ninetail fox….
4th teleportation jutsu = tobi’s advanceteleportation jutsu…..
4th was the one develop that jutsu=tobi have it…..
madaras ideology and sharingan=tobi
tobi=4th
madara=4th
= doesnt mean an equal but it signifies a connection….