Well yes? if he was skilled enough to have is own perfect shape manipulation and combine it with perfect nature manipulation he wouldn’t need rhe weaker jutsu chidori. I’ll be back to that but first; copy’ing Taijutsu doesn’t require a specific element. And no, Kakashi only use low level (But tricky) earth, and high level water and lightning. It’s also stated that the Uchia clan all where specificly skilled in fire Jutsus since they where all leaned towards fire, if they could perfectly copy any jutsu there is they would have been masters of all elements, not just fire. And as for your evidence from Kakashi gaiden, it’s not reliable. Gameboy proved that Kishi had made misstakes throughout the earlier part of the manga. Another evidence of kishi making misstakes is this
Sasuke tosses 6 shurrikens, but Kakashis substitution get’s hit by 3 kunais and 8 shurikens. Also notice how he tosses them, you’d need puppet master no jutsu to pull that off.
But here in these chapters, bot Itatchi and Sasuke needs to hit the Shuriken/kunai midd air with another object to be able to pull such a spinn of. So a chunin level Sasuke ( I assume he was chunnin level when he left the village) and a jounin level itatchi (or since it’s proven he joined akatsuki on age 11, another of kishis misstakes, he might aswell have been hokage level there)
Can’t do what a genin level sasuke did before he ever went on a real ninja mission? No, no and hell no. Kishi makes misstakes. Kakashi can’t use the Rasengan in battle cause it’s not natural for him, it’s a way to big strain for him. Otherwise the sharingan would have the same powers as the rinnegan. Wich it doesn’t.
These are the powers of the rinnegan (those we know)
And also, we can speculate about the power to create a more advanced form of KageBunshin no jutsu. Copies that are directly linked to one another at all times, and not just sharing information when dispelled or deastroyed. Like when the Kkonoha team where trying to rescue Gara and Peins 6 bodies. That would explain some about pein, but not all his bodies can look like Jirayas former enemies. Although I’d say that Nagato is hidden somewhere and that those 6 bodies are nothing but a fail safe. TIme will tell.
To summize it all; Sharingan is NOT Rinnegan. You can’t use all tecniques perfectly just cause you have the sharingan. You can just copy them with variating success depending on how natural that tecnique is to you.
Azrael: Rasengan is an A level jutsu. One of the hardest there is to learn. The fact that it doesn’t require any seals is part of what makes it so deadly.
madrane: we dont even know how 1st and 2nd died, so it is not that important. But 4th’s death is very important and if he would return it would destroy the epicnes of his sacrifice.
imo 1st and 2nd isnt someones that I would call a “hero” at all.
How many times to I have to say it, sharingan can not copt rasengan, it is not possible. The main purpose of sharengan is to copy hand seals, you can not copy hand seals if there is none. The reason kakasi does not use rasengan is cause he does not have enought chackra to use it in battle, have you guys noticed how small kakashi’s rasengans are? The 4th taught the rasengan to kakashi as jeriah taught it to naruto.
The 4th’s revival did not fail cause orchu couldn’t get his soul, it failed cause the 3rd stoped the coffien. The 3rd “I must stop this last coffien all costs.”
This is an argued point, but if the 4th was there fighting, first he has better combat abilitys then the 1st and 2nd. We know the 3rd is stronger then the 1st and 2nd and the 3rd and 4th are around equal in strength (kishi interview, is the 4th the strongist ninja, kishi - the 4th is the strongist dead ninja followed closely by the 3rd). Plus I doubt the 4th will get caught in his own jutsu.
About madara and his hair, what you people never heard of a hair cut, how about this one, why did madara have long hair when itachi meet him right before he killed the clan?
Also take a look at this picture and please post back, I would hate to think I waisted my time by makeing it.
They was just a strong shinobi’s who decided that it would bring more profit if they would live in so called “peace” (there wasnt this anyways) and kill people/steal information for money instead of killing each other out of pure bloodlust (which is still here, its just called differently) - not very heroic imo.
to deathwalker:
i agree with everything u comment but about the 4th not being summond about oro gameboy sayd that the 4th couldt be summond because he used that sealing tech.
then i sayd he can be summond because oro was trying to summon the 4th but the 3th stopd it
nice pic btw^^
dude im not trying to outnerd you ayt. i did not say naruto/pein connected
relatively. what i meant is somehow there must be a connection between them
like “pein and 4th is about the same age (maybe 4th is older) they could have
been enemies before or when jiraiya thought that the possesor of rinnegan is
the chosen one but now he beleive its naruto. there must be some history
about pein that is connected to naruto or konoha that has not been told”
to gameboy
tobi is madara but the body is not madara’s real body weve seen this dude a
hundred times i dont see any reason why kishi is hiding his identity unless
something surprising is coming out like “its not madara’s body and it is
somebody who possesed the sharingan aswell (im not gonna say obito even
though thats what i beleive cuz people will freak out so i will say) its probably a
diff uchiha with the name of uchia tom cruise.
one more thing even if madara is actually obito’s body the reason kisame did
not say “hi obito” because i dont think kisame know who obito is. i mean if i
see you in real life and you will tell me your name is brad feet i will beleive that
even though your real name is (lets assume) gamy boy. and next time i will see
you i will call you brad feet. and if madara is in his body dude he’s gonna be so
old he cant even wipe his own A S S (no offense though i respect your opinion)
to people talkin about kakashi’s rasengan.
kakashi learned the rasengan from his master hokage he cannot copied that
using sharingan because “rasengan does not have a hand seal”
if kakashi can copy the rasengan just by looking on it then you are saying that
kakashi can copy the intelligence of shikamaru just by looking on him playing
shougi.
It is not only hand seals that sharingan copies, but a flow of chakra in ones body as well.
Also Kishi might be avoiding to show Madara’s face not because he is in someones alse body, but because there is some important/unusual features. In the begining Kakashis eye was covered and later we find out that he has sharingan, sasori was a doll, Oro was michael jackson, Deidara had a mouth on his chest and so on.
you right madara could have somehing diff in his face so imporatant you cant see what it is. he’s probably a robot face since he have a robot arms and thats the reason why he’s not aging because he’s a robot. (i respect that awesome)
Please let’s stop with that eye thing again, I know Tobi’s eye and Madara’s eye is very alike, but I already showed you that the eye form can change. And it’s not only hand seals that the Sharingan can copy (and it cannot “copy” the flow of chakra Loki it can “see” the flow of chakra) but sharingan can copy any physical move: hand seal, taijutsu, calligraphy, etc etc.
To the people who said Kakashi copied the Rasengan:
“Maybe” Kakashi (or other Uchiha) could be able to copy the Rasengan with Sharingan, but he DIDN’T HAVE SHARINAGN WHEN HE LEARNT THE RASENGAN SO HE COULDN’T COPY IT, how many times do I have to say this?
To Loki:
1st and 2nd aren’t heroes you say, before they killed for bloodlust and after they did it for money? Man they Always went to war for money, the countries Hired the Clans, so they had payment. But before they found Konoha, there was war at all times, and they stopped that, it’s different to kill occasionally in missions, like when you’re hired to protect some body and you have to kill assassins than constant war. So by creating Konoha and the system One village / One country, they saved thousands of lives, isn’t that heroic? When Madara and Shodai fought, Madara was trying to destroy Konoha, the 1st protected all the village, isn’t that heroic?
Yep, if they would be payed for bombing school yard with all the children they would do it. If they would be hired to assasinate the pope or dalai lama they would do it.
And some clans certanly had killed each other for bloodlust. Eaven in one county - one village system. The case of Kaguya’s anyone? There was small wars betwean villiges anyways, so “thousands of lifes” is a brave statement. As I said I do not see anything heroic about 1st. and 2nd.
And Sharingan does copy the flow of chakra - if it does’nt then user should study what he had seen then other shinobi used a technique and only then he would be able to use that technique, because to use a technique you need to do both things - body movements AND specificaly control the chakra flow. As we have seen the techniques can be copied nearly instantly, so chakra flow is copied as well.
I dont think the sharingan copy the flow of chackra only byakugan the sharingan can only copie hand signs and MOVE like example at the 1st chunin ex sasuke used his sharingan to copie the MOVEMENTS of a person so he can know wath hewas wrighting^^
Man other village and other countries a bit different from Konoha, Kaguyas fought for bloodlust that right, but: 1st they weren’t from Konoha; 2nd like Orochimaru said, they were a stupid clan. For example you have shinobis rules that are applied in all Ninja World, like a Shinobi must not possess emotions but Konoha’s Will of Fire is a clear sign of Konoha’s difference, the Will of Fire is the will to protect the village and the people in it, your conrades like Shikamaru said before the mission of retrieving Sasuke. I’m not saying all the kills ended and that Konoha is perfect, but it is by far the best village and this system by far better than the old order. For example: II World War, the Allies ended it and saved thousands of Jews and other people, even if there is still war in the world that doesn’t mean their were not heroes, they made the world a better place even if just a little. About the Sharingan, where did you saw the Sharingan copying a jutsu instantly? In the fight between Kakashi and Zabuza, kakashi wasn’t copying the jutsus, he cast a little genjutsu in Zabuza to make him do what he wanted, so to Zabuza it looked like Kakashi was copying all his moves instantly, go read that again and you will see.
To madrane:
I agree Kakazu didn’t even look like a human anymore. But Byakugan can’t copy chakra flow, just see it as well as the chakra points, Sharingan can only see the flow but not the points.
What Sharingan can do is memorize every movement at first sight and if the user’s body is already able to do that movements, like possessing the necessary strength, speed or chakra the user can copy that movement quickly, but if the body isn’t able already, the user must train, like Sasuke for example, he could copy Shishi Rendan very quick (but not instantly) but to be able to do all Lee’s moves he needed one month of training, because he didn’t had enough speed.
madrane: any shinobi of this level is hardly a human being. Kisame - merman. Deidara - mouths everythere. Zetsu - a turnip. Jman - frogfreak. Oro - snakefreak. Sasori - barbie. Hidan - priest whose god made him indestruktable. Itachi - bloodline is evoliutionary step forvard anyways. Pain - six bodies. 1st hokage - same as Itachi, but with even more mutated dna. Konan - girl from the hidden toilet villige. Kakashi - freaky eye. Third hokage - well… I bet he has something inhuman, probably talent.
Daniel: 1st saved those lifes because it was more profitable for him. 4th sacrificed his life because he loved people, not for his own gains - thats why I see him as a hero and not the 1st.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:16 am
To Daniel:
http://inaruto.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ch321-uk-page-07-bkgpyu.jpg
Naruto says: That sounds like it’s going to be a peice of cake.
Kakshi replays: If that where the case I wouldn’t have needed to develop the chidori.
Well yes? if he was skilled enough to have is own perfect shape manipulation and combine it with perfect nature manipulation he wouldn’t need rhe weaker jutsu chidori. I’ll be back to that but first; copy’ing Taijutsu doesn’t require a specific element. And no, Kakashi only use low level (But tricky) earth, and high level water and lightning. It’s also stated that the Uchia clan all where specificly skilled in fire Jutsus since they where all leaned towards fire, if they could perfectly copy any jutsu there is they would have been masters of all elements, not just fire. And as for your evidence from Kakashi gaiden, it’s not reliable. Gameboy proved that Kishi had made misstakes throughout the earlier part of the manga. Another evidence of kishi making misstakes is this
http://www.inaruto.net/naruto/naruto-chapter-6/2/
Sasuke tosses 6 shurrikens, but Kakashis substitution get’s hit by 3 kunais and 8 shurikens. Also notice how he tosses them, you’d need puppet master no jutsu to pull that off.
http://www.inaruto.net/naruto/naruto-chapter-220/3/
But here in these chapters, bot Itatchi and Sasuke needs to hit the Shuriken/kunai midd air with another object to be able to pull such a spinn of. So a chunin level Sasuke ( I assume he was chunnin level when he left the village) and a jounin level itatchi (or since it’s proven he joined akatsuki on age 11, another of kishis misstakes, he might aswell have been hokage level there)
Can’t do what a genin level sasuke did before he ever went on a real ninja mission? No, no and hell no. Kishi makes misstakes. Kakashi can’t use the Rasengan in battle cause it’s not natural for him, it’s a way to big strain for him. Otherwise the sharingan would have the same powers as the rinnegan. Wich it doesn’t.
These are the powers of the rinnegan (those we know)
http://www.inaruto.net/naruto/naruto-chapter-378/2/
http://www.inaruto.net/naruto/naruto-chapter-373/1/
http://www.inaruto.net/naruto/naruto-chapter-375/3/
And also, we can speculate about the power to create a more advanced form of KageBunshin no jutsu. Copies that are directly linked to one another at all times, and not just sharing information when dispelled or deastroyed. Like when the Kkonoha team where trying to rescue Gara and Peins 6 bodies. That would explain some about pein, but not all his bodies can look like Jirayas former enemies. Although I’d say that Nagato is hidden somewhere and that those 6 bodies are nothing but a fail safe. TIme will tell.
To summize it all; Sharingan is NOT Rinnegan. You can’t use all tecniques perfectly just cause you have the sharingan. You can just copy them with variating success depending on how natural that tecnique is to you.
June 17th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Azrael: Rasengan is an A level jutsu. One of the hardest there is to learn. The fact that it doesn’t require any seals is part of what makes it so deadly.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:42 am
madrane: we dont even know how 1st and 2nd died, so it is not that important. But 4th’s death is very important and if he would return it would destroy the epicnes of his sacrifice.
imo 1st and 2nd isnt someones that I would call a “hero” at all.
June 17th, 2008 at 1:47 am
well to me they are important they are the founders of konoha??? there more than a hero to me
June 17th, 2008 at 1:56 am
How many times to I have to say it, sharingan can not copt rasengan, it is not possible. The main purpose of sharengan is to copy hand seals, you can not copy hand seals if there is none. The reason kakasi does not use rasengan is cause he does not have enought chackra to use it in battle, have you guys noticed how small kakashi’s rasengans are? The 4th taught the rasengan to kakashi as jeriah taught it to naruto.
The 4th’s revival did not fail cause orchu couldn’t get his soul, it failed cause the 3rd stoped the coffien. The 3rd “I must stop this last coffien all costs.”
This is an argued point, but if the 4th was there fighting, first he has better combat abilitys then the 1st and 2nd. We know the 3rd is stronger then the 1st and 2nd and the 3rd and 4th are around equal in strength (kishi interview, is the 4th the strongist ninja, kishi - the 4th is the strongist dead ninja followed closely by the 3rd). Plus I doubt the 4th will get caught in his own jutsu.
About madara and his hair, what you people never heard of a hair cut, how about this one, why did madara have long hair when itachi meet him right before he killed the clan?
Also take a look at this picture and please post back, I would hate to think I waisted my time by makeing it.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/TheReaper22/TobiisMadara.jpg
June 17th, 2008 at 2:04 am
They was just a strong shinobi’s who decided that it would bring more profit if they would live in so called “peace” (there wasnt this anyways) and kill people/steal information for money instead of killing each other out of pure bloodlust (which is still here, its just called differently) - not very heroic imo.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:08 am
to deathwalker:
i agree with everything u comment but about the 4th not being summond about oro gameboy sayd that the 4th couldt be summond because he used that sealing tech.
then i sayd he can be summond because oro was trying to summon the 4th but the 3th stopd it
nice pic btw^^
June 17th, 2008 at 2:15 am
to mihaz
dude im not trying to outnerd you ayt. i did not say naruto/pein connected
relatively. what i meant is somehow there must be a connection between them
like “pein and 4th is about the same age (maybe 4th is older) they could have
been enemies before or when jiraiya thought that the possesor of rinnegan is
the chosen one but now he beleive its naruto. there must be some history
about pein that is connected to naruto or konoha that has not been told”
to gameboy
tobi is madara but the body is not madara’s real body weve seen this dude a
hundred times i dont see any reason why kishi is hiding his identity unless
something surprising is coming out like “its not madara’s body and it is
somebody who possesed the sharingan aswell (im not gonna say obito even
though thats what i beleive cuz people will freak out so i will say) its probably a
diff uchiha with the name of uchia tom cruise.
one more thing even if madara is actually obito’s body the reason kisame did
not say “hi obito” because i dont think kisame know who obito is. i mean if i
see you in real life and you will tell me your name is brad feet i will beleive that
even though your real name is (lets assume) gamy boy. and next time i will see
you i will call you brad feet. and if madara is in his body dude he’s gonna be so
old he cant even wipe his own A S S (no offense though i respect your opinion)
to people talkin about kakashi’s rasengan.
kakashi learned the rasengan from his master hokage he cannot copied that
using sharingan because “rasengan does not have a hand seal”
if kakashi can copy the rasengan just by looking on it then you are saying that
kakashi can copy the intelligence of shikamaru just by looking on him playing
shougi.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:18 am
if madara is in his OWN body dude he’s gonna be so
old he cant even wipe his own A S S
(i forgot to put OWN) gotta say it b4 people freak out
June 17th, 2008 at 2:24 am
madara is not in his own body. cmon.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:25 am
It is not only hand seals that sharingan copies, but a flow of chakra in ones body as well.
Also Kishi might be avoiding to show Madara’s face not because he is in someones alse body, but because there is some important/unusual features. In the begining Kakashis eye was covered and later we find out that he has sharingan, sasori was a doll, Oro was michael jackson, Deidara had a mouth on his chest and so on.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:26 am
SKULL: Kakuzu could wipe and he was just as old.
June 17th, 2008 at 2:31 am
you right madara could have somehing diff in his face so imporatant you cant see what it is. he’s probably a robot face since he have a robot arms and thats the reason why he’s not aging because he’s a robot. (i respect that awesome)
June 17th, 2008 at 3:09 am
To DeathWalker:
Please let’s stop with that eye thing again, I know Tobi’s eye and Madara’s eye is very alike, but I already showed you that the eye form can change. And it’s not only hand seals that the Sharingan can copy (and it cannot “copy” the flow of chakra Loki it can “see” the flow of chakra) but sharingan can copy any physical move: hand seal, taijutsu, calligraphy, etc etc.
To the people who said Kakashi copied the Rasengan:
“Maybe” Kakashi (or other Uchiha) could be able to copy the Rasengan with Sharingan, but he DIDN’T HAVE SHARINAGN WHEN HE LEARNT THE RASENGAN SO HE COULDN’T COPY IT, how many times do I have to say this?
To Loki:
1st and 2nd aren’t heroes you say, before they killed for bloodlust and after they did it for money? Man they Always went to war for money, the countries Hired the Clans, so they had payment. But before they found Konoha, there was war at all times, and they stopped that, it’s different to kill occasionally in missions, like when you’re hired to protect some body and you have to kill assassins than constant war. So by creating Konoha and the system One village / One country, they saved thousands of lives, isn’t that heroic? When Madara and Shodai fought, Madara was trying to destroy Konoha, the 1st protected all the village, isn’t that heroic?
June 17th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Yep, if they would be payed for bombing school yard with all the children they would do it. If they would be hired to assasinate the pope or dalai lama they would do it.
And some clans certanly had killed each other for bloodlust. Eaven in one county - one village system. The case of Kaguya’s anyone? There was small wars betwean villiges anyways, so “thousands of lifes” is a brave statement. As I said I do not see anything heroic about 1st. and 2nd.
And Sharingan does copy the flow of chakra - if it does’nt then user should study what he had seen then other shinobi used a technique and only then he would be able to use that technique, because to use a technique you need to do both things - body movements AND specificaly control the chakra flow. As we have seen the techniques can be copied nearly instantly, so chakra flow is copied as well.
June 17th, 2008 at 3:45 am
to loki:
kakuzo is a monster not a human he has (dont know i forgot) maybe 5hearts ore something and he could have more than that!
to daniel: we didnt say he copied it from the 4th we sayd the 4th LEARNED the rasengan to kakashi
June 17th, 2008 at 3:47 am
I dont think the sharingan copy the flow of chackra only byakugan the sharingan can only copie hand signs and MOVE like example at the 1st chunin ex sasuke used his sharingan to copie the MOVEMENTS of a person so he can know wath hewas wrighting^^
June 17th, 2008 at 4:32 am
To Loki:
Man other village and other countries a bit different from Konoha, Kaguyas fought for bloodlust that right, but: 1st they weren’t from Konoha; 2nd like Orochimaru said, they were a stupid clan. For example you have shinobis rules that are applied in all Ninja World, like a Shinobi must not possess emotions but Konoha’s Will of Fire is a clear sign of Konoha’s difference, the Will of Fire is the will to protect the village and the people in it, your conrades like Shikamaru said before the mission of retrieving Sasuke. I’m not saying all the kills ended and that Konoha is perfect, but it is by far the best village and this system by far better than the old order. For example: II World War, the Allies ended it and saved thousands of Jews and other people, even if there is still war in the world that doesn’t mean their were not heroes, they made the world a better place even if just a little. About the Sharingan, where did you saw the Sharingan copying a jutsu instantly? In the fight between Kakashi and Zabuza, kakashi wasn’t copying the jutsus, he cast a little genjutsu in Zabuza to make him do what he wanted, so to Zabuza it looked like Kakashi was copying all his moves instantly, go read that again and you will see.
To madrane:
I agree Kakazu didn’t even look like a human anymore. But Byakugan can’t copy chakra flow, just see it as well as the chakra points, Sharingan can only see the flow but not the points.
What Sharingan can do is memorize every movement at first sight and if the user’s body is already able to do that movements, like possessing the necessary strength, speed or chakra the user can copy that movement quickly, but if the body isn’t able already, the user must train, like Sasuke for example, he could copy Shishi Rendan very quick (but not instantly) but to be able to do all Lee’s moves he needed one month of training, because he didn’t had enough speed.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:48 am
madrane: any shinobi of this level is hardly a human being. Kisame - merman. Deidara - mouths everythere. Zetsu - a turnip. Jman - frogfreak. Oro - snakefreak. Sasori - barbie. Hidan - priest whose god made him indestruktable. Itachi - bloodline is evoliutionary step forvard anyways. Pain - six bodies. 1st hokage - same as Itachi, but with even more mutated dna. Konan - girl from the hidden toilet villige. Kakashi - freaky eye. Third hokage - well… I bet he has something inhuman, probably talent.
June 17th, 2008 at 4:54 am
Daniel: 1st saved those lifes because it was more profitable for him. 4th sacrificed his life because he loved people, not for his own gains - thats why I see him as a hero and not the 1st.